Response to A Warmonger explains ......
>>>>It is so interesting to find people who fail to remember the 6 million Jewish people were eliminated by the Nazi in world War 2,
more disturbing than interesting i would have thought, where did you find them by the way? nobody should ever be allowed to forget what humans are capable of doing to humans
>>>>Ireland wasn't there! Where was Ireland?
geographically where it has always been
politically neutral in favour of the allies
we had just emerged from a war of independence and a civil war. some in the country wanted to fight WITH the nazis against britain (my enemy's enemy is my friend). neither is a remotely decent excuse for not helping in whatever way was possible, but they are reasons why ireland shamefully looked the other way (religion played a big part too)
i think you should also be aware that very few people - very very few people - knew about the appalling acts of butchery that were taking place
in some cases in many euro countries, had they known they might have welcomed the news
in other cases they may have implored their countries to get involved
most of the true horror became known after the war - but enough was known yet too may ignored it
ireland to her eternal shame did not take in jewish refugees for the most base disgusting reasons anyone could construct
>>>>>The Jewish people very concerned about democratic approach to danger for not only them but all.
and so many payed the ultimate price whilst the world stood in silence. it should never have taken so many deaths but democracy was strengthened as the world hung their heads in shame
>>>>>No one has suffered more than they have.
it is hard to argue that any group of people have suffered so horribly. worth remembering that each holocaust victim suffered as the next and as all humans suffer when their lives are debased and arbitrarily extinguished
>>>>>In the United States it was the Jewish people that contibuted the most to making sure the blacks had full freedom and equal rights.
jewish people have contributed an enormous amount to every society and culture in the world (although i think blacks had a more central role in that one)
>>>>>Ireland probably doesn't even elect their Mayors or Precinct Chairman or Judges.
we have a slightly different democratic system in ireland than the one you are referring to so i dont know what our equivilent of a precint chairman would be
we dont elect our mayors (by plebiscite anyway) as we dont have a mayoral system
we certainly dont elect our judges, who dispite suffering from the same eccentricities as most judges seem to, are politically independent and separate from the legislature
>>>>>What an atrocity!
if you are referring to the horrendous suffering inflicted on millions of humans i agree
>>>>>Need to clean up their house first.
i couldnt agree more. certainly if the dail were to suggest invading a country to install democracy, they would be reminded of this fact. not to say that ireland doesnt participate in the world community with considerable involvemnet in aid agencies, ngo's, the united nations, and un peacekeeping missions - but like so many countries who consider themselves civilised, crimes against humanity are committed every day on the most marginalised of our citizens
>>>>>The Irish are basically a lovely people with a few nuts.
that seems a fair assessment. although it depends on what one means by 'a few'
>>>>>>Probably Declan and Sharon are not even 30 and have no children they will admit to.
i am 28 and i have no chilren (not even ones to deny) and as for sharon, do you mean sharon the poster here? or sharon as in Mr Sharon? either way i dont know of their familial ways but Mr Sharon is over 30 i think
>>>>>>>>I am Catholic who grew up in a Jewish Community in the United States and can certainly state they were the fairest of family type people.
i was raised a catholic (though no longer practising) in a catholic community in dublin. i do not know many jewish people, those i have seem very fair, but i would never presume to describe a person by their religion at the expense of their personality
>>>>>>My Irish Uncle from the United States died in the Saar Basin in 1945 oppossing the Nazi. I am sure there were some Irish people who oppossed the war against Hitler and tried to get the British to sue for peace.
i had no immediate family involved in the second world war (both my grandfathers were in the irish army who, as you know, were not involved. however tens of thousands of irishmen joined the british army (considering the politics involved, they sure had strong conviction) to fight and their graves are littered all over europe
i certainly wish to neither inflate nor diminsih the role of the united states in world war 2 but it is worth remembering that they got involved pretty late and were quite happy with neutrality for some time
there really wasnt much of a peace movement in 1930's europe, however no doubt many were not in favour of war, as surely not being in favour of war is a natural disposition until proven otherwise. you may not know that hitler was somewhat admired in britain before the war, churchill was a particular fan of many of his policies, but the arguement against appeasement seems to suggest that no peaceful outcome should have been attempted and the continent should have just jumped to war
should hitler have been stopped by force?
60 years ago there were no other trusted methods, no other international institutions, no time or resources spent pondering how to prevent a world war, that beligerence against a sovereign country was wrong - if one country had a row with another it was ended by sending thousands of each other's poorest and bravest soons to face each other in a trench
we have (had?) come along way since then
>>>>>Then they had the audacity to state the British and United States were war mongers.
well i dont know about 'then' as quite a lot happened in between
i am not sure how audacious it is to describe 2 countries (and their political supporters) who beligerently invade a country that has never attacked them, never threatened to attack them, does not have the capability to attack them, who do so without support of the majority of their own citizens, without the majority of the world, contrary to several international laws, breaching united nation security council resolutions, as warmongers
>>>>>>Some people just like Dictators. It is something we must face, and forgive.
dictators love dictators, and i am pretty sure saddam was anti-war
but i dont think all that many other people like dictators
or being dictated to by anybody
they like the freedom to listen, and think (maybe even think some more) and decide
now if that decision is based purely on what you hear, and not on what you think, then you are being dictated to (of course who ever is giving the dictation, is by definition a dictator)
>>>>>Then they cloth themselves at the proper time as anti-war.
well i hope most people's natural disposition is anti-war, at least during peace (has the world ever been at peace? or does peace only apply to western countries?)
so whilst i was anti-war last year i am still anti-war now, and i would presume i will be anti-war in 12 months
which i might have to be if syria doesnt stop manufacturing those sneaky invisible WMD
are you suggesting that those who are pro-war now were pro-war last year and will be pro-war next year?
regardless of the circumstances of the war?
>>>>>>>I suggest the Bush family is very very honorable, and care only to benefit their nation especially after 9/11.
i suggest they are not, and do not
>>>>>>Many good Irish people were killed in that affair. Where was Sharon and DE Clan? How did they stand? Sitting on their hands?
many good people from many countries died in that affair. that why so many good people think it is shameful for some to attempt to profit from that grief
as we all know, iraq had nothing to do with 11/9 and it is terrible that politicians used that travisty of mass murder of so many good people of so many nationalities to justify the travisty of mass muder of two nationalities so far
do you really think america is safer (or the world) because iraq and afghanistan have been toppled?
are there fewer or more people seething with hatred for america in the middle east?
if this is a war on terror, why is it creating more terrorists?
and what does the war on terror have to do with iraq?
>>>>>>Where was Sharon and DE Clan? How did they stand? Sitting on their hands?
i can only speak for myself, and not withstanding the difficulties in standing while sitting on one's hands ...
i went numb
i couldnt speak
the same expressions of disgust and anger and grief and shock and helplessness felt all around the world, by every nationality, by every political ideology, by every race, every creed, by every cell of every organ of evey body
a national day of mourning in ireland
the american anthem
an outpouring of grief and friendship for our american friends who suffered such a travesty - for our nationals who died, and for the british and australians and guyanans and samoans and french and germans and every other nationality that perished
i even grieved for the killers
yet why, when so many countries supported the war in afghanistan, did so few back a war on iraq?
why did fewer countries than went to war against iraq in 1991 go to war now?
>>>>>>>The United States is blessed to have all Nationalities from everywhere, and all Religions.
it truly is - as are all countries that embraces its brothers and sisters from every walk of life, and way of life
>>>> These are the people who left normally a land of tyrants, and they just are not going to tolerate such nonsense for their children.
nobody should accept or tolerate the rule of tyrants
sobody should want such nonsense or hatred or violence or misery for their children
i dont even want it for my self let alone any potential offspring
>>>>>>Think they should get a bumper sticker for their cars that says,"Make love not war-stop driver and ask for details"
certainly preferable to a 'might is right' bumper sticker or 'lets kill ourselves some a-rabs' bumper sticker
>>>>>They will be a lot happier.
i truly hope all the people of the world can be happier
i hope a war hasnt made you happy, because whatever the outcome of any war, or its legitimacy, surely the misery and grief inflicted on the innocent is enough to at least temper that happiness if not destroy it
because personally, the thought of several thousand mangled, burnt, rotting, shredded, eviscerated, limbless, decapitated, pulverised corpses does not bring a smile to my face
the sight of children shredded by shrapnel does not make me happy
the sight of a baby orphaned does not amuse
a man who has lost his wife
a woman who has lost her son
a child who has lost everythign, even his arms
should they feel happy too?
and just remember this, 11/9/2001 didnt change the world - it changed the west
the rest of the world was too busy dying to notice - they have a series of september 11th's every year and one has just been visited upon the good decent ordinary INNOCENT people of iraq
just think how sick it would be to be HAPPY after september 11th 2001
enjoy your happiness, but you'll excuse me if i wont share in it
Created By: Declan Finlay